Home » Official Dark Mists Forum » General Discussion » Defunct Clans
| Defunct Clans [message #55034] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 15:08  |
Nyrisia
Messages: 366
Registered: January 2004 |
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This discussion came up recently when one player wanted to take over AVE -- A clan with no active members. Should this clan be given away freely because someone expressed interest? Or.. should it (like other clans) be dissolved and their area file removed from the game?
I'm of mind to dissolve these clans and for allowing others to create similar clans.
Clans that would be dissolved:
Brotherhood of Fear (BoF)
New Enchanter's Organization (NEO)
Harbringers of Hopelessness (HoH)
Cult of the Worm (CW)
Bluebeard's Pirate crew (BP)
Theran Guild of Magic (TGM)
Blades of the Tower (BT)
Kingdom of Mahn-Tol (KMT)
Order of the Shepherd (OS)
Street Gangsters (SG)
Traders United (TU)
Merchants of Thera (MOT)
Guild of Merchants, Limited (GML)
All areas associated with these clans would also be removed.
Thoughts?
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55035] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 15:11  |
Morkamel
Messages: 69
Registered: April 2009 |
the Master Enchanter, Head Researcher of Guild of Alchemical Research
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Hmmm... I have mixed feelings on this. I see both sides as to why you should allow new leaders or to why they should just disappear. Im a bit mixed on the areas being removed as well. GML for one provides several things in game that are quite usefull.
What are the chances a clan could "purchase" another clan?
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55037] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 15:40 |
Tiku
Messages: 110
Registered: April 2010 |
Dean of the Tower, ArchWizard of Night
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Keep Clan areas as a reminiscent way to remember the clans. They are a part of DM's history as the statues are in Crusader, as all the old characters in game (like Penwhiel (sp?)) and so forth.
Other than that, I don't care what happens to the clans. There are always ways to RP the resurrection, just don't make it easy as people saying 'I want to be LEADER!' and then giving it to them.
I say give 'em all one more chance if people want to bring em back, if it doesn't work, quash em. Maybe send a scroll out in game as the registrar of the clan's that he is seeking members of lost clans, perhaps those who've lost their way, to come back. Put the list of clans there, and if someone expresses interest, let em pay the gold up and make the Clan active again. Those which do not draw interest, crush 'em.
I'd still like to see a few areas remain. CW is a bit personal for me, a lot of hours vested in it. Same with BP. For some people it was just a way to have a bank account without the drawbacks of losing gold upon withdrawl.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55038] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 15:42 |
Torel
Messages: 40
Registered: March 2010 |
the Hero of Holy Healing
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I would vote for allowing transfer of a dead clan. Some of them have fun history that could be continued. In realistic terms I could see fun RP with someone raising an old clan back to life. There's supposed to be requirements of some sort or effort put in to make a clan and get clan levels. There should be some kind of price to pay/quest or something to bring it back to life.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55039] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 15:48 |
Nyrisia
Messages: 366
Registered: January 2004 |
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The problem is..
Do we just hand over a clan because someone "wants" it? I think GML has over 10m gold that someone can suddenly come into because they wanted to resurrect the clan. I've seen one player get AVE 2-3 times in a row because he was the only one interested in the clan, thus he had access to a clantalk system, free bank account, and whatever else comes from being in that clan.
I don't want to keep the area files around when the clan is dead. It's time to move on.. come up with new ideas, and leave the crutches behind. So what if you can't buy warpstone or pay for a training dummy anymore? You find other alternatives.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55040] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 15:54 |
Alrec
Messages: 449
Registered: January 2009 |
Lord of Redemption
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Hmm I could have sworn I saw a member of SG online just a few days ago.
I have a similar concern to Morkamel's for all enchanters if you remove GML. A few of the gml materials can be gotten elsewhere easily now, but a lot of them cannot.
removal of GML and BP takes away the best two containers in the game as well, which for not just enchanters would be a big hit, but for enchanters would be a huge hit.
I think the areas could be left for posterity, and just make it known that if a clan dies down to no remaining members it can never be revived. If you want a similar clan you'll have to start from scratch.
I'd just hate to see things thrown backwards because of this. But I see no issue with removing those listed clans from the clanlist.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55041] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 16:02 |
Nyrisia
Messages: 366
Registered: January 2004 |
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Why not make new containers/whatever that tend to the clans/houses that are currently active? Part of having a GML chest was also advertising to the universe that you worked with the GML and that their goods were a cut above the rest.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55042] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 16:06 |
Tiku
Messages: 110
Registered: April 2010 |
Dean of the Tower, ArchWizard of Night
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Both good arguments, Ny and Alrec. Positives and negatives to both options. As far as I see it, though, there are so many enchanters in the game that would be demoralized by the removal of BP and GML areas, and we would likely see less of them, which would make alchemy more sought after. Which could be a good thing.
I know you don't just give it away b/c someone 'wants' it. There are intricacies involved. It was boiling the argument down to the basics, really. I agree with finding alternatives. Folks will get used to the changes, as we always do.
As in my multi-charring post. A lot of things in DM have emotional attachment to a lot of players. Seeing our past disintegrate is a little demoralizing. That's one issue I guess I have in weighing the pros and cons of your suggestion, Ny. Other than that, there's nothing holding me back from saying go for it.
Alrec - I don't see things being 'thrown backwards'. I guess from an area-builder perspective, you see your hours of work being flushed out of the system. That would also be demoralizing, and some of those Clan areas were also created by players themselves.
I don't know which way to go, I'm just throwing out ideas for stewing on.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55043] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 16:07 |
Alrec
Messages: 449
Registered: January 2009 |
Lord of Redemption
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well thrown backwards was in regards to enchanters losing access to a lot of materials that if they want to spend the gold, saves them a lot of time in large research.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55061] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 18:35 |
Kalanaonar
Messages: 59
Registered: March 2010 |
Taskmaster of Ancient, Knight Emissary of the Lemniscate
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Alrec..you did see an SG a few days ago.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55062] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 19:06 |
Yenti
Messages: 24
Registered: July 2010 |
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I personally have no problem with someone taking over a dead clan, especially with low numbers. There are a lot of good clans out there with great RP. Just because there is no interest over a few months, doesn't mean there won't be interest down the road.
Maybe if someone is asking for the clan, they should have to prove some sort of RP first? Make them work for the clan leadership?
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've seen one player get AVE 2-3 times in a row because he was the only one interested in the clan, thus he had access to a clantalk system, free bank account, and whatever else comes from being in that clan.
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That player was me. I was also one of the original creators of Aven'Hei so I knew the RP angle, and carried over the RP from a few separate characters. Also Illithids can already use hivemind channel to communicate, and our clan account wasn't ever very much gold.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55063] |
Mon, 12 July 2010 20:29 |
Echiath
Messages: 15
Registered: June 2010 |
the Anti-Hero of Death, Knight of the Lemniscate
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Well here are a few thoughts. When a Clan goes down to zero members have the name triggered with a command by the Clan Mob, sorry forgot his name. Then when people are rping the clan's rp, that they no longer have access to due to our current low player base, they can know the clan will soon be lost. At this point they could send an IC scroll to a MAILBOX that would also be provided by the mob. Council of the Clan Halls or something along those lines. This would be an IC scroll that could be viewed by all immortals. If the character continues to rp such out perhaps they could be confronted to see if they think they can make something happen. If the CLAN stays on the list for 5 months IRL it would be auto purged and removed from the list. This gives people who are perhaps interested in perusing the rp of a dead clan to revive it.
I also would hate to see some people's, both mortal and immortal, hard work and dedication lost. But again understand sometimes the past is the past.
This would also go with the request on possible RP events. Imms if they wanted could take on the role of a mob based around one of the Clans rps. Depending on the rp such could be salvaged or destroyed.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55068] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 00:24 |
Syuraqi (retired)
Messages: 62
Registered: July 2010 |
the Knight Hero
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Keep them like torel said. They are a good part of DM history, and I for one love walking to clan areas and reading the description and trying to make characters here and there that can fit to this. but sometimes the hard part is getting leadership becasue it seems like the one person just "wants" it.. I love these areas, and I think they should be kept.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55081] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 13:42 |
Dagrit (retired)
Messages: 1
Registered: July 2010 |
the Assassin Hero
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I have a suggestion. Defunct Clans are like Thera Businesses and Organizations. Why not auction them out to perspective buyers whom would breathe fresh life into them. Instead of just handing over the Leadership people would have to actually invest the gold into certain businesses in order to obtain Leadership.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55083] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 14:13 |
Xurinos
Messages: 544
Registered: November 1996 |
the Ebb and Flow of Chaos
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My thoughts (not a decision) are...
People form groups. They give their groups names. That is a clan. When those people die out or vanish, then that group is no longer represented. Really, a group is defined by its people, so the addition or subtraction of any member redefines the group. However, the clan does get an identity via its name and via the ideals held by the members of the group. The interesting thing about this discussion is that a "clan" is a structural entity in DM that happens to be kept around after everyone is gone. This does not happen in real life. Thus, we are confused.
What happens in real life is that people hear about some named group in the past that died out, and they raise the old banner and start afresh. "Now WE are GML!" It will not be the same GML, though. It will never have the same glory as the old; it might have a new and better glory. The people are new, though. The times have changed.
Drawing from that thought process, I would propose that old clans be completely disbanded but that people may reuse the names all they want. Bank accounts? Annulled. The bank wins. (They always win; heck, when they start losing, the government bails them out, and they win again.) Clan areas? Overgrown with moss, falling apart, taken over by a wasp nest, etc. Don't expect the same merchants; they probably moved on when they weren't getting any business. But feel free to clean the place up and call it home.
If you want to keep a clan alive, you need to remain active in it. You should not get perks built by other people or by previous characters (multicharring?).
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55090] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 17:04 |
Lisyn
Messages: 31
Registered: April 2010 |
the Hero of Magical Transference, ArchWizard of Twilight
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Hah, just an observation, but two Imps so far have suggested their wish to remove em. Where as the players and one IMM have suggested they wish to keep the old clans, some even trying to buy em.
I think clans should be able to buy other clans. But, y'know that seems kinda cheap. Oh, I'll spend 1,000,000 gold on this clan, who's bank has 10,000,000 gold in it.
I think new clans that have similiar meanings should be able to do something with the clan. Maybe at the cost of some of their bank account, and all of the clan they are trying to buy's bank account. Like a buyout of the GML by the GAR
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55096] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 17:59 |
Pelanar
Messages: 66
Registered: April 2009 |
Bloodroyal of Ancient, High-Templar of Time, Master of Pain of Clan dr'Rhillzznae
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It could also easily fathomed roleplay wise that there are also npcs that are members of these clans that would maintain them during the time that there are no players in them. Clans such as BP/GAR/GML, actually have these and would likely not allow their clans to fall into disrepair. I think it would be great if imms would take on the guise of some of these npcs sometimes when there is a new character that is looking to join and actually interview the character for a position.
I agree that the clans shouldnt' be given out at the drop of a hat, but there are many avenues to roleplay their continuance while not simply giving it away.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55105] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 19:03 |
Lorelei
Messages: 38
Registered: January 2010 |
the Monk Heroine
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| Pelanar wrote on Tue, 13 July 2010 17:59 |
It could also easily fathomed roleplay wise that there are also npcs that are members of these clans that would maintain them during the time that there are no players in them. Clans such as BP/GAR/GML, actually have these and would likely not allow their clans to fall into disrepair. I think it would be great if imms would take on the guise of some of these npcs sometimes when there is a new character that is looking to join and actually interview the character for a position.
I agree that the clans shouldnt' be given out at the drop of a hat, but there are many avenues to roleplay their continuance while not simply giving it away.
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+1 to imms taking over creatures to encourage people to earn the right to take over a defunct clan.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55120] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 20:50 |
Khallor (retired)
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2010 |
the Crocodile Totem Bearer
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Hey, what ever happened to Hand of Humanity?
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55121] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 20:59 |
Shangralen
Messages: 100
Registered: May 2010 |
the Knight Hero
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I think if you read between the lines. The immortals are trying to say a few people have been exploiting old clan bank account systems in some way.
I agree, if a clan is dead, a clan is dead.
I don't think if you can RP you're old angle, that you should be able to get that old bank account. A lot of chars put gold into that clan, not just yours. Why does one person who "takes over" a clan get all that gold? I think that's multi-charring too.
Some people mentioned rp their way into the old clan. Here's the solution. When a clan goes without members, even once, the bank account is whiped. Now it's about RP and not gold. With glunnerans ring being taken away, we are all about trying to find ways to get gold, right? Also, when a clan has zero members, put them back to tier one status. A few people mentioned working for it. But I bet more people Rp to bring back an old clan solely for the free gold involved now more then ever with the gold acquiring so hard, enchanters excluded.
If I remember correctly it was somewhere around 1 million gold to get tier two status, and have an active immortal willing to do it for you. That's when you got clantell status. We all know this is a huge boon. Getting 1 million gold is not easy either. Why just give that all away? Cuz someone rp'd? Give em 5 extra hp for rp'ing lol. Not ten million gold and a way to tell their allies even when forcibly asleep where they are.
Keep the memories of clans...don't keep the gold someone made 4 years ago... That seems like a good solution to me.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55122] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 22:00 |
Nysgar
Messages: 8
Registered: October 2009 |
the Hitman
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Hrmm, I have to say. first you want to purge all the houses. Now all the Clans that have no players. If its going to force the MUD in the right direction, do it. DM needs to grow, and it's not growing at the rate it could. I have been playing here for 13 years, and I am considering a retirement. Its just not as fun as it used to be. Maybe purging all the houses and purging all the empty clans will help. But, I seriously doubt it.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55124] |
Tue, 13 July 2010 23:37 |
Gauwyn
Messages: 15
Registered: May 2010 |
the Archmage of Absorption
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I say delete them. If we allowed purchases, you would be inheriting more than just a clan. I remember the GML when it was in it's heyday. It was awesome, I loved interacting with those people. Some person who was completely unaffiliated would be able to strut around thera with that GML tag in front of his name. Lame-O.
But, if you wanted to sell them - you should sell them as tier 1 clans with nothing - no bank account, no clantalk, etc.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55130] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 02:56 |
Ksenia
Messages: 36
Registered: June 2010 |
the Anti-Heroine of Famine, Sagamore of Dominion
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I would recommend active clans to be given a chance to take over the area of a vanished clan. There can be some sort of RP or a challenge, if needed. I would assume majority of the DMN members would be interested in having a clan area, for example...
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55137] |
Wed, 14 July 2010 09:25 |
Vullivro
Messages: 21
Registered: June 2010 |
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I would vote to leave all clan areas untouched. They are a part of DM's history (as someone said). I think the greatest reward a player can have is to leave a footprint in the game. Even something as small as an inscription on a plaque, or a statue. Areas can be changed as needed, but I would not remove them for the sake of removing them (dead clan). Remove the clan name, bank account, guardian, etc. but the areas I believe should stay. Clans should die out when there are no more remaining members. But, if a clan had enough of an impact on the game to warrant an area made for them, I believe we should leave it be.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55253] |
Fri, 16 July 2010 23:46 |
Cander
Messages: 12
Registered: April 2008 |
the Hero of Divine Wrath
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lol. remove my clan area from the game and I will 100% delete all my chars and never come back if that answers your question on the topic as to how I feel about the subject.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55476] |
Thu, 22 July 2010 22:28 |
Jikan
Messages: 11
Registered: July 2010 |
Chosen of Redemption
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I definitely would like to talk on this subject. Back in the day I probably had a char in every clan and ran quite a few. With that in mind, I can say 100% I would feel sad if some of the old clans were removed. I feel they were a very rich player history of DM and should be somewhat left to the players.
This brings me to the other question, should they be allowed to come back? I would say yes, again, because it is a player run thing. Another reason is it gives people who don't want to deal with the PK aspect of houses a place to go.
Anyway, while I've been back, I haven't seen any of DS or GML, which were by far my two most involved clans. I would love to see both of them come back and be strong again, I might even be willing to help with that, though I'm really trying to stick to one char.
So yeah, I would love to see clans become more active. However, I understand with the lower player base this may not be as possible.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55478] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 02:45 |
Contego (retired)
Messages: 36
Registered: June 2010 |
the Knight Hero
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After a lot of thought and deliberation with a couple friends, I want to ask everyone a favor concerning how to handle this. If anyone has a description of a member of any clan, has ever wanted to write a room description, or quest, please donate your work. Creating a new area with mobs and some quests or simple items would not only be of great use but would be a nostalgic, interactive history book. The Pirate Crew's private area was a great addition and continues to be useful to the players.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55482] |
Fri, 23 July 2010 09:18 |
Eldarion
Messages: 30
Registered: July 2003 |
the Hero of Magical Transference, Foolish Would-be Manipulator of Gods
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Keep significant ones like GML and purge less significant ones like Traders United. Judgment is up to immortals. Maybe, we could decide it on forum.
latter, implement a way to take over a clan. If one player wants to take over GML, this is okay. Just purge clan bank account and give it to him, with an in game event of course. Maybe a (automatic)quest must be done, maybe a certain amount of gold must be deposited, maybe both, maybe any other thing. Any input is welcome.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55583] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 10:54 |
Hraesvelgr
Messages: 42
Registered: August 2007 |
Ambivalent Drudge of Prophecy, Leader of Cult of the Worm
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Cult of the Worm still exists. Find me in the game and
we'll see where it goes. As for getting rid of defunct
clans, I think those that have an established history
should remain such as CW, DRE, Elf Clan, GLS, GML, Bluebeards,
and Drakontas Sporos. Those that take over any of those
clans as new leaders should bring a new twist to the clan
to keep it vital. If you want to clear out the bank account
so they work from scratch, thats fine too. But dont rip
down the history of the game. My two cents.
Hraesvelgr
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55586] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 21:24 |
Thork
Messages: 1
Registered: March 2006 |
the Monk Hero
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There are a few clans on that list that have always been fun to rp for me. Two of them i have taken control of as leader and enjoyed rping with others and inducting them. My twelve year darkmists career is riddled with gaps of inactivity and i always like to know that when I return I can once again try to take leadership of a clan and expand the rp.
If the gold is your main issue, why not just revive the clan with a maximum balance of 75.000 gold. You could also grant the account 50.000 gold for each new member it gains but only up to the clans original balance.
Just a random solution to a random problem i thought of while checking the forum for the first time in six months. Also, I only read the fist few posts, so sorry if this has been touched on already.
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| Re: Defunct Clans [message #55593] |
Sat, 31 July 2010 20:24 |
Nyrian
Messages: 17
Registered: May 2010 |
the Master of War
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lol, I was thinking with GML that because the RP is a merchant guild that a person wanting to take over should have to offer a buy out deposit, and then turn x profit in y time without the use of the mob merchants.
Say Joe wants to be the CEO of GML, he petitions and an imm pops up as a mob member of the GML. The imm sets the deposit price (maybe 100k gold), and arranges a deal that sets the profit point (maybe 50k gold in one month). If Joe makes the profit point in the time frame, then the imm empties the bank account except for money from the profit point (50k) and Joe takes over the guild. If Joe can't meet the profit point, Joe looses his gold and is barred from becoming the CEO of the GML (can't cut it). Assuming Joe succeeds, then for the first month the GML doesn't recieve any money from the GML merchants, or maybe only 50%. After that everything is set back to normal.
This way nobody inherits the GML bank account, in fact you have to pay to get it and once you do you can't just sit back and let the gold roll in from merchants. However the merchants stay in the game which makes the quality of life better for enchanters, and if someone does take over they can improve the quality of life for everyone.
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But thats my opinion take or leave it Nyrisia and Alrec. Also Thanks for the work 
